At Oslo Business Forum, Dr. Brené Brown sat down with moderator Pellegrino Riccardi to discuss daring leadership and why it's an essential skill for the future.
Vulnerability and Courage are Inseparable
Pellegrino opened the discussion by asking Brené to explain vulnerability. "The easiest definition emerges from the data," she said. "It is uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure. It is the emotion we experience during times of risk-taking and when we feel exposed."
At the core of Brené's message is the idea that courage cannot exist without vulnerability. In conversations with leaders from various fields—including military Special Forces and NFL athletes—this point became undeniably clear. Brené's research challenges the traditional view that vulnerability is a weakness, presenting it instead as an essential component of courage.
"There is no courage without vulnerability."
%20(1).jpg?width=680&height=453&name=OBF%202024%20Krafft-345%20(1)%20(1).jpg)
Dr. Brené Brown is a research professor at the University of Houston, where she holds the Huffington Foundation Endowed Chair at the Graduate College of Social Work. Brené has spent the past two decades studying courage, vulnerability, shame, and empathy.
Brené asked the audience at Oslo Business Forum to raise their hands if they were raised to believe vulnerability is a weakness. Many hands went up. She then asked them to raise their hands if they were raised to be brave. Again, most hands went up. This is just one example of the paradoxes we face in life and leadership.
"If you're doing something and already know how it's going to end, that's not very brave," Brené said. When you can't predict the outcome and move forward anyway, true courage emerges.
Navigating Leadership in Uncertainty
Pellegrino asked Brené to explain why being vulnerable in uncertainty is so hard. Brené discussed a study she recently finished that examines the future of leadership in the next five years. What did the research uncover? "There is going to be a very hard strain on our humanness moving forward,” she said.
"The leader who develops the deepest and greatest capacity to stay focused in uncertainty will win."
Brené believes that the leaders who develop the greatest capacity to remain focused will win in the future. "That means creating new ways of working, new ways of thinking, and new neural pathways," she said.
Understanding Our Hardwiring for Protection
Brené once believed that the biggest barrier to courageous leadership was fear. But in interviews with hundreds of CEOs around the world, what emerged is that fear does not get in the way of courage—armor does — defensive mechanisms like perfectionism, micromanaging, cynicism, or being overly decisive.
Brené has looked at how we protect ourselves when we're fearful. Some leaders can stay decisive, thoughtful, and strategically aligned amid uncertainty. These leaders know what their default behaviors are when in fear. One of the things that Brené talked about was what she learned from Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney. In his leadership work on the paradox of being thoughtful and decisive. She has discovered that her own tendency when fearful is to get overly decisive, which creates an illusion of control.
"You are going to have to lead at the pace of change. You're going to have to make time and space where time and space do not exist."
In the space between stimulus and response is the power of choice. In that choice is our liberation and our growth. Brené talked about how critical it will be for leaders to learn how to create space between the point of stimulus and the time of action. "One of the roles of a leader going forward will be to take a deep breath when there's a lot of pressure and create space between stimulus and response," she said.
Building Strength to Handle Overwhelm and Change
Leaders may feel overwhelmed when it seems the world is unfolding faster than their nervous systems can unfold. Brené said, "I often try to say this to myself when I sit down [with leaders]: your only job is to be curious and create space and slow people down."
As leaders face constant change, a certain kind of strength becomes critical. Brené used a personal story to illustrate how core strength—both physically and
metaphorically—enables us to bear the weight of paradox and change, ensuring we stay grounded in the face of overwhelming circumstances.
"We're going to have to be able to bear the weight of paradox," she said. What does that mean? We must recognize that more than one thing can be true at a time. We need urgency, but we also need to be thoughtful. We need agility, but we also need to be tethered to something.
"The leaders who have developed a strong functional core will be able to withstand change at the velocity it's coming," Brené said. "If you're not grounded, you'll be stuck in decision-making that is very impulsive."
Pellegrino explored Brené’s own sense of being tethered. "I'm very grounded and aware when I'm not and will excuse myself from the table,” she said. She explained that her groundedness comes from being a tenaciously curious person.
Armored Leadership: Knower vs. Learner
A major challenge leaders face in today’s environment is the need to shift from being a "knower" to a "learner." Brené's research shows that clinging to outdated ways of doing things leads to irrelevance. Leaders who embrace continuous learning will succeed, just as Dorothy Vaughan of NASA did when she chose to learn new technology despite fears of becoming obsolete.
"The number one shame trigger for us at work is the fear of irrelevance," said Brené. When you have a workforce that will not be relevant unless it is upskilled or reskilled, you will likely encounter two responses: Some people will say, "Let's go! What do I need to learn?" Another group will respond with fear. Their reaction will not be to become a “learner” but to let everyone know they are a "knower." Their approach is highly cynical. They believe they can continue to do things as they have been, and those who change are bound to fail.
"Moving forward, that's another paradox," said Brené. Leaders will need to learn how to exist with their deep experience, talent, and expertise and also embrace becoming a learner.
The Loneliness of Leadership
Leadership, Brené explains, can often feel isolating. As decision-makers, we carry the weight of responsibility for our teams and organizations, and the transparency we strive for must be balanced with the complexities of leadership dilemmas.
Every leader wants to make the right decision, and they wrestle with it. You have likely observed that there are a lot of things you can't talk to people about. "We want a transparent culture, but what is our definition of transparency?" asked Brené. She said leaders must approach transparency with the mindset, "I will tell you what I know when I know it, and you can know it."
The Stories We Tell Ourselves
When we experience conflict, stress, worry, or fear, our brain is wired for one thing above all else: survival. And in this scenario, our brains ask for stories to protect us. "In the absence of data, people make up stories. It's how we survive," Brené said.
"Studies have shown us that when you give the brain a story in the midst of anxiety and uncertainty, it chemically rewards you with a sense of calm," said Brené. The trouble is that the brain rewards us regardless of the accuracy of the story. And more often than not, the stories we tell ourselves are false.
Brené urged leaders to constantly "check the stories" they tell themselves—a practice that also requires courage. "Before you start making big decisions you'll regret, check out the story with people you trust," she said.
Checking Your Armor: Final Thoughts on Daring Leadership
On a final note, Pellegrino and Brené explored the idea of "armoring up." Brené
acknowledged that all leaders do this, but the types of armor they wear often differ. She shared her personal mantra for checking her armor: "Don't shrink to make people comfortable, and don't puff up to make people fearful. Just be in your sacred space. Just take up the room that you take up."
"It's not fear that gets in the way of daring leadership. It's our
armor."
Key Points
- Dr. Brené Brown's research focuses on vulnerability, courage, empathy, and leadership. Her book Dare to Lead encourages leaders to build brave, daring cultures.
- Vulnerability and courage are inseparable; there is no courage without vulnerability.
- In uncertain times, we must focus on remaining grounded to make strategic decisions.
- As humans, we're biologically wired for protection, making vulnerability difficult but essential for growth.
- Developing "grounded confidence" will enable us to navigate paradoxes and overwhelm.
- We must cultivate a culture that values learning over knowing to stay relevant in rapidly changing environments.
- The stories we tell ourselves can create calm, but they may not be accurate; courageous leaders check their narratives.
- Daring leadership involves recognizing and removing the "armor" we often wear to protect ourselves.
Questions to Consider
- How can you create a culture where vulnerability is seen as a strength rather than a weakness?
- Consider a time when you embraced vulnerability and admitted, "I don't know." How did your team react?
- What steps can you take to improve your ability to navigate uncertainty in your leadership role?
- In moments of stress or overwhelm, what stories do you tend to tell yourself, and how can you begin to challenge them?
Invest in your leadership growth and sign up for Oslo Business Forum 2025 waiting list today. Headlining leadership visionary Simon Sinek, the 10th edition of OBF is set to be epic!
